GGJstudios
Mar 19, 02:17 PM
Malware includes computer viruses, worms, trojan horses, spyware and other malicious and unwanted software or programs. The idea that OSX and/or Unix/Linux based operating systems is free from such threats is absurd.
No one has presented the idea that Mac OS X is free from all malware threats. Since your reading comprehension might need some help, I'll repeat my statement again:
there is no Mac malware in the wild that can't be avoided with some common sense and prudent action on the part of the user.
Viruses for Mac OS X don't exist, so antivirus isn't needed to protect against them.
Trojans for Mac OS X do exist, but can be avoided by the user being careful what they install, so antivirus isn't needed to protect against them.
Meanwhile, the answer on here to avoiding potential pitfalls in things like Flash is to (surprise), not install or use it. Hey guys, don't power on your computers and you will always be safe! :rolleyes:
I use Flash all the time and have never had any issues with it.
Even Apple themselves regularly release security updates. WTF is the point of a security update if there's no possible threat to OSX?
Again, no one has said there are not threats to Mac OS X; only that those threats don't require any AV software to defend against them.
Just because a threat is less likely than on other systems does not mean that it does not exist. Yet people on here won't even admit that much.
Either you're not reading or not comprehending the posts that have been made. No one is saying that NO threats exist; only that those threats can be avoided by the user without the need for AV software.
Only a fanboy would take a post that suggests that a false sense of security can lead to dangerous behavior that might be a liability in the future (good advice in almost any market/situation) and twist it into "Boy you're ignorant; we are INVULNERABLE! OSX cannot be hacked or attacked! It's impossible!
Who are you referring to? I haven't seen anyone say such things in this thread or any other.
"fanboy"
Again, who are you referring to? I'm not a fanboy, or a boy of any kind. I have no allegiance or loyalty to any brand or manufacturer (except Harley-Davidson, but for very different reasons). It's amusing to see how people try to bash Apple or Macs for the wrong reasons, then resort to calling people "fanboys" when their arguments aren't accepted. Apple and Macs have plenty of weaknesses. Attack one of the legitimate ones and you'll have sensible people agree with you. Make a case against Apple or John Deere or Mattel or Coca-Cola or any other company that isn't based in fact, and you'll get resistance. That doesn't make those who oppose such a case "fanboys".
Malware includes computer viruses, worms, trojan horses, spyware and other malicious and unwanted software or programs. The idea that OSX and/or Unix/Linux based operating systems is free from such threats is absurd.
No one has presented the idea that Mac OS X is free from all malware threats. Since your reading comprehension might need some help, I'll repeat my statement again:
there is no Mac malware in the wild that can't be avoided with some common sense and prudent action on the part of the user.
Viruses for Mac OS X don't exist, so antivirus isn't needed to protect against them.
Trojans for Mac OS X do exist, but can be avoided by the user being careful what they install, so antivirus isn't needed to protect against them.
Meanwhile, the answer on here to avoiding potential pitfalls in things like Flash is to (surprise), not install or use it. Hey guys, don't power on your computers and you will always be safe! :rolleyes:
I use Flash all the time and have never had any issues with it.
Even Apple themselves regularly release security updates. WTF is the point of a security update if there's no possible threat to OSX?
Again, no one has said there are not threats to Mac OS X; only that those threats don't require any AV software to defend against them.
Just because a threat is less likely than on other systems does not mean that it does not exist. Yet people on here won't even admit that much.
Either you're not reading or not comprehending the posts that have been made. No one is saying that NO threats exist; only that those threats can be avoided by the user without the need for AV software.
Only a fanboy would take a post that suggests that a false sense of security can lead to dangerous behavior that might be a liability in the future (good advice in almost any market/situation) and twist it into "Boy you're ignorant; we are INVULNERABLE! OSX cannot be hacked or attacked! It's impossible!
Who are you referring to? I haven't seen anyone say such things in this thread or any other.
No one has presented the idea that Mac OS X is free from all malware threats. Since your reading comprehension might need some help, I'll repeat my statement again:
there is no Mac malware in the wild that can't be avoided with some common sense and prudent action on the part of the user.
Viruses for Mac OS X don't exist, so antivirus isn't needed to protect against them.
Trojans for Mac OS X do exist, but can be avoided by the user being careful what they install, so antivirus isn't needed to protect against them.
Meanwhile, the answer on here to avoiding potential pitfalls in things like Flash is to (surprise), not install or use it. Hey guys, don't power on your computers and you will always be safe! :rolleyes:
I use Flash all the time and have never had any issues with it.
Even Apple themselves regularly release security updates. WTF is the point of a security update if there's no possible threat to OSX?
Again, no one has said there are not threats to Mac OS X; only that those threats don't require any AV software to defend against them.
Just because a threat is less likely than on other systems does not mean that it does not exist. Yet people on here won't even admit that much.
Either you're not reading or not comprehending the posts that have been made. No one is saying that NO threats exist; only that those threats can be avoided by the user without the need for AV software.
Only a fanboy would take a post that suggests that a false sense of security can lead to dangerous behavior that might be a liability in the future (good advice in almost any market/situation) and twist it into "Boy you're ignorant; we are INVULNERABLE! OSX cannot be hacked or attacked! It's impossible!
Who are you referring to? I haven't seen anyone say such things in this thread or any other.
"fanboy"
Again, who are you referring to? I'm not a fanboy, or a boy of any kind. I have no allegiance or loyalty to any brand or manufacturer (except Harley-Davidson, but for very different reasons). It's amusing to see how people try to bash Apple or Macs for the wrong reasons, then resort to calling people "fanboys" when their arguments aren't accepted. Apple and Macs have plenty of weaknesses. Attack one of the legitimate ones and you'll have sensible people agree with you. Make a case against Apple or John Deere or Mattel or Coca-Cola or any other company that isn't based in fact, and you'll get resistance. That doesn't make those who oppose such a case "fanboys".
Malware includes computer viruses, worms, trojan horses, spyware and other malicious and unwanted software or programs. The idea that OSX and/or Unix/Linux based operating systems is free from such threats is absurd.
No one has presented the idea that Mac OS X is free from all malware threats. Since your reading comprehension might need some help, I'll repeat my statement again:
there is no Mac malware in the wild that can't be avoided with some common sense and prudent action on the part of the user.
Viruses for Mac OS X don't exist, so antivirus isn't needed to protect against them.
Trojans for Mac OS X do exist, but can be avoided by the user being careful what they install, so antivirus isn't needed to protect against them.
Meanwhile, the answer on here to avoiding potential pitfalls in things like Flash is to (surprise), not install or use it. Hey guys, don't power on your computers and you will always be safe! :rolleyes:
I use Flash all the time and have never had any issues with it.
Even Apple themselves regularly release security updates. WTF is the point of a security update if there's no possible threat to OSX?
Again, no one has said there are not threats to Mac OS X; only that those threats don't require any AV software to defend against them.
Just because a threat is less likely than on other systems does not mean that it does not exist. Yet people on here won't even admit that much.
Either you're not reading or not comprehending the posts that have been made. No one is saying that NO threats exist; only that those threats can be avoided by the user without the need for AV software.
Only a fanboy would take a post that suggests that a false sense of security can lead to dangerous behavior that might be a liability in the future (good advice in almost any market/situation) and twist it into "Boy you're ignorant; we are INVULNERABLE! OSX cannot be hacked or attacked! It's impossible!
Who are you referring to? I haven't seen anyone say such things in this thread or any other.
Prom1
Jan 1, 05:48 PM
It makes sense. iProducts are increasingly becoming ubiquitous, therefore they will become more profitable for malware developers to attack. It's not a McAfee sales pitch so much as it's stating the obvious. Same with Android.
I'm sorry but for 10 YEARS McAfee, Symantec, and other smaller players have tried to push this junk on the LARGEST distributed smartphone platform in the world - EVEN today its THE LARGEST (though dwindling VERY fast) - S60 Symbian. Although that platform has its own issues with security the amount of security holes in it is STILL minimal: address book plagiarizing, taking BT control to browse file system (which was patched by Nokia VERY quickly), and a few others.
Point being that if the OS is secure enough to begin with and patches & updates are made & distributed QUICKLY & TIMELY by Apple or Google for their respective platforms then its quite possible this is just FUD at ground roots.
Yes. Absolutely. A closed filesystem where you're only able to download anything significant through a moderated app store is going to be riddled with viruses. :rolleyes:
I do recall a particular Camera app in the AppStore that was VERY VERY popular just 3months ago that took address book information and served it out to a server! This got through your "moderated app store" with complete ease and remained available for quite a few months before being pulled (both the store and during sync as well).
I'm sorry but for 10 YEARS McAfee, Symantec, and other smaller players have tried to push this junk on the LARGEST distributed smartphone platform in the world - EVEN today its THE LARGEST (though dwindling VERY fast) - S60 Symbian. Although that platform has its own issues with security the amount of security holes in it is STILL minimal: address book plagiarizing, taking BT control to browse file system (which was patched by Nokia VERY quickly), and a few others.
Point being that if the OS is secure enough to begin with and patches & updates are made & distributed QUICKLY & TIMELY by Apple or Google for their respective platforms then its quite possible this is just FUD at ground roots.
Yes. Absolutely. A closed filesystem where you're only able to download anything significant through a moderated app store is going to be riddled with viruses. :rolleyes:
I do recall a particular Camera app in the AppStore that was VERY VERY popular just 3months ago that took address book information and served it out to a server! This got through your "moderated app store" with complete ease and remained available for quite a few months before being pulled (both the store and during sync as well).
Coolerking
Sep 8, 09:14 AM
Hell no, Leopard will run on G4s, G5s, Core Duos, Core 2 Duos, maybe even the old G3s but we'll have to wait and see on that one.
Thanks. Judging by what some people have said it sounded like you needed Core 2 Duo to run Leopard.
Thanks. Judging by what some people have said it sounded like you needed Core 2 Duo to run Leopard.
aegisdesign
Sep 10, 05:09 PM
And that's one of the reasons I don't like all in ones, I dont like throwing away display no matter what the size. My last CRT lasted me about 6 years and I had an old apple 14" monitor that was still working after 10 years! Now that's getting value out of your components! :D
Do you really want to use a monitor from 10 years ago in everyday use? Not likely. I've a 15" CRT from about a decade ago too but it's sitting on a shelf as a spare in case my newer monitor dies.
Most times I've bought a new computer, I've also bought a new monitor. A widescreen 17" monitor back when I bought my iMac was extortionately expensive. I generally figure on spending about �15-1800 every three years on a computer and about 5-6 years of useful life. It's been going up from a G3 iBook to a 17" G5 Mac to a fully kitted out 24" iMac for that money. I can't imagine what it will be in 3 - 6 years time but I guess it'll make a 24" iMac feel just as obsolete as the 500Mhz G3 iBook with a 1024x768 screen feels.
I have to conclude that people who want to use their 10 year old CRT are just incredibly cheap and don't value their screens as much as being able to claim how fast their CPU is. I've been programming for 20+ years professionally and your screen isn't something to skimp on. It's THE most important thing if you value your eyes.
Do you really want to use a monitor from 10 years ago in everyday use? Not likely. I've a 15" CRT from about a decade ago too but it's sitting on a shelf as a spare in case my newer monitor dies.
Most times I've bought a new computer, I've also bought a new monitor. A widescreen 17" monitor back when I bought my iMac was extortionately expensive. I generally figure on spending about �15-1800 every three years on a computer and about 5-6 years of useful life. It's been going up from a G3 iBook to a 17" G5 Mac to a fully kitted out 24" iMac for that money. I can't imagine what it will be in 3 - 6 years time but I guess it'll make a 24" iMac feel just as obsolete as the 500Mhz G3 iBook with a 1024x768 screen feels.
I have to conclude that people who want to use their 10 year old CRT are just incredibly cheap and don't value their screens as much as being able to claim how fast their CPU is. I've been programming for 20+ years professionally and your screen isn't something to skimp on. It's THE most important thing if you value your eyes.
profets
May 3, 11:00 AM
Two high end screens from dual thunderbolt on a 27 inch iMac? Wow. That is bad ass.
Check it out.. 2x 30" Dell's connected to the 27 iMac
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/05/imac-2011-05-03-600-58.jpg
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/03/apple-imac-hands-on-with-dual-30-inch-displays-video/
Check it out.. 2x 30" Dell's connected to the 27 iMac
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/05/imac-2011-05-03-600-58.jpg
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/03/apple-imac-hands-on-with-dual-30-inch-displays-video/
vwcruisn
Mar 23, 05:38 PM
Stay classy Austin :rolleyes:
As for the Senator's request, they cannot be required to take it down. If cops are so overt that apps can bust their checkpoints, maybe they should be floating checkpoints?
It's illegal. Police need to publicly announce check points before setting up. Ironic they would want to pull the app since this is the basis that makes them legal in the first place.
As for the Senator's request, they cannot be required to take it down. If cops are so overt that apps can bust their checkpoints, maybe they should be floating checkpoints?
It's illegal. Police need to publicly announce check points before setting up. Ironic they would want to pull the app since this is the basis that makes them legal in the first place.
randyg
Sep 13, 09:36 PM
The only way i'd give up my Treo for an "iPhone" is if it is a true "smart phone". That means PDA functionality. It's got to do everything my Treo does. If it's simply another phone with iTunes on it then it's not worth switching, at least in my opinion.
lilo777
Apr 19, 01:01 PM
+1 on the notifications
Who would want to have a s*itty radio tuner on their iphone? that's why I download music So I can listen to the music I want at good quality. with no commercials? And you can multi task any ways so what the big deal of streaming music? at least streaming is the genre you like haha
Did you know that Radio offers more than just music?
Who would want to have a s*itty radio tuner on their iphone? that's why I download music So I can listen to the music I want at good quality. with no commercials? And you can multi task any ways so what the big deal of streaming music? at least streaming is the genre you like haha
Did you know that Radio offers more than just music?
zekegri
Mar 23, 05:18 PM
If I am sober enough to go through the process and find out where the checkpoints are then I should be able to use the software.
Prom1
Jan 1, 05:48 PM
It makes sense. iProducts are increasingly becoming ubiquitous, therefore they will become more profitable for malware developers to attack. It's not a McAfee sales pitch so much as it's stating the obvious. Same with Android.
I'm sorry but for 10 YEARS McAfee, Symantec, and other smaller players have tried to push this junk on the LARGEST distributed smartphone platform in the world - EVEN today its THE LARGEST (though dwindling VERY fast) - S60 Symbian. Although that platform has its own issues with security the amount of security holes in it is STILL minimal: address book plagiarizing, taking BT control to browse file system (which was patched by Nokia VERY quickly), and a few others.
Point being that if the OS is secure enough to begin with and patches & updates are made & distributed QUICKLY & TIMELY by Apple or Google for their respective platforms then its quite possible this is just FUD at ground roots.
Yes. Absolutely. A closed filesystem where you're only able to download anything significant through a moderated app store is going to be riddled with viruses. :rolleyes:
I do recall a particular Camera app in the AppStore that was VERY VERY popular just 3months ago that took address book information and served it out to a server! This got through your "moderated app store" with complete ease and remained available for quite a few months before being pulled (both the store and during sync as well).
I'm sorry but for 10 YEARS McAfee, Symantec, and other smaller players have tried to push this junk on the LARGEST distributed smartphone platform in the world - EVEN today its THE LARGEST (though dwindling VERY fast) - S60 Symbian. Although that platform has its own issues with security the amount of security holes in it is STILL minimal: address book plagiarizing, taking BT control to browse file system (which was patched by Nokia VERY quickly), and a few others.
Point being that if the OS is secure enough to begin with and patches & updates are made & distributed QUICKLY & TIMELY by Apple or Google for their respective platforms then its quite possible this is just FUD at ground roots.
Yes. Absolutely. A closed filesystem where you're only able to download anything significant through a moderated app store is going to be riddled with viruses. :rolleyes:
I do recall a particular Camera app in the AppStore that was VERY VERY popular just 3months ago that took address book information and served it out to a server! This got through your "moderated app store" with complete ease and remained available for quite a few months before being pulled (both the store and during sync as well).
RollTide
Apr 30, 02:49 PM
Ill be in Panama city Florida a couple days after the release, may pick one up on the way home if we go by a store. Have to find a list of stores.
MacRumors
Apr 4, 11:39 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/04/attempted-apple-store-holdup-goes-bad-suspect-killed/)
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2011/04/04/123733-otay_ranch_store.jpg
Apple's Otay Ranch retail store
San Diego 6 reports (http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/story/Suspect-Killed-Two-Arrested-in-Apple-Store-Hold/4tTtOBhLMEW7QTRlIW-9CA.cspx) that an attempted holdup at Apple's Otay Ranch retail store (http://www.apple.com/retail/otayranch/) in Chula Vista, California went sour this morning, with one of the robbers reportedly having been shot and killed by a mall security guard.A security guard caught the suspects smashing the glass front doors of the Apple Store at the mall before the mall opened for the day.
The guard reportedly shot a male suspect in the head. NBC San Diego reports (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Shooting-Reported-at-Otay-Ranch-Town-Center-119181734.html) that two other suspects, one of whom had also been shot, have been arrested. The incident happened shortly before 7:00 AM this morning, before the store had opened for business.
Article Link: Attempted Apple Store Holdup Goes Bad: Suspect Killed (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/04/attempted-apple-store-holdup-goes-bad-suspect-killed/)
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2011/04/04/123733-otay_ranch_store.jpg
Apple's Otay Ranch retail store
San Diego 6 reports (http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/story/Suspect-Killed-Two-Arrested-in-Apple-Store-Hold/4tTtOBhLMEW7QTRlIW-9CA.cspx) that an attempted holdup at Apple's Otay Ranch retail store (http://www.apple.com/retail/otayranch/) in Chula Vista, California went sour this morning, with one of the robbers reportedly having been shot and killed by a mall security guard.A security guard caught the suspects smashing the glass front doors of the Apple Store at the mall before the mall opened for the day.
The guard reportedly shot a male suspect in the head. NBC San Diego reports (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Shooting-Reported-at-Otay-Ranch-Town-Center-119181734.html) that two other suspects, one of whom had also been shot, have been arrested. The incident happened shortly before 7:00 AM this morning, before the store had opened for business.
Article Link: Attempted Apple Store Holdup Goes Bad: Suspect Killed (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/04/attempted-apple-store-holdup-goes-bad-suspect-killed/)
ariechel
Aug 28, 03:00 PM
Agreed. There won't be anything of import in Paris itself. But Apple may release updates in conjunction with the Expo from their Cupertino campus.
That should make the Expo organizers _really_ happy! :rolleyes:
Maybe I'm just getting caught up in the feverish excitement surrounding the impending release of Merom-based Apple notebooks, but I am going to predict that Apple will debut new iPods at Paris (which is why they banned all non-iPod mp3 players at the Apple Expo).
To give this announcement maximum effect they must announce MacBook Pros with Merom outside of the Apple Expo. Since other PC manufacturers have now announced Merom-based notebooks, Apple will likely present the MacBook Pros before the Expo, so either tomorrow or next week Tueday. I stand by my earlier predictions that MacBooks (and Mac Minis) will not get Meroms yet.
That should make the Expo organizers _really_ happy! :rolleyes:
Maybe I'm just getting caught up in the feverish excitement surrounding the impending release of Merom-based Apple notebooks, but I am going to predict that Apple will debut new iPods at Paris (which is why they banned all non-iPod mp3 players at the Apple Expo).
To give this announcement maximum effect they must announce MacBook Pros with Merom outside of the Apple Expo. Since other PC manufacturers have now announced Merom-based notebooks, Apple will likely present the MacBook Pros before the Expo, so either tomorrow or next week Tueday. I stand by my earlier predictions that MacBooks (and Mac Minis) will not get Meroms yet.
Multimedia
Sep 12, 07:02 PM
just before i jump between covers.... a rip from handbrake in 100% quality i had from before, DV Pal footage, 720p and 1080i footage all opened in quicktime and just gone to export for iPod all worked fine.
Paula Abdul is set to lipsynch
Paula Abdul has landed herself
Paula Abdul launches casting
Corey Clark
Julia DeMato and Corey Clark
HecubusPro
Sep 5, 03:03 PM
I'm really hoping for merom in mbp's and mb's. The wait has been killing me.
Same here. I really want a new C2D MBP, but since all of this info about the iMac, movie store, nano, etc. has been taking the spotlight, the C2D laptop information has come to a near stop.
Will we now be forced to wait longer than September. I still doubt it, but the quiet on this front the past week has been alarming to me.
Same here. I really want a new C2D MBP, but since all of this info about the iMac, movie store, nano, etc. has been taking the spotlight, the C2D laptop information has come to a near stop.
Will we now be forced to wait longer than September. I still doubt it, but the quiet on this front the past week has been alarming to me.
LondonCentral
Mar 29, 02:17 PM
Are you suggesting that an internationally respected technology analysis firm might have more of a clue than the fans on MacRumours? ;)
Fans of Macrumors should set up their own analysis think tank. They'll be the most respect voice in the industry and rake in millions.
Disclaimer; The above comment is intended for April 1st.
Fans of Macrumors should set up their own analysis think tank. They'll be the most respect voice in the industry and rake in millions.
Disclaimer; The above comment is intended for April 1st.
Hodapp
Sep 26, 09:59 AM
I can't wait to get my hands on an iPhone- I'm getting tired of my SLVR. As soon as the iPhone launches I'm throwing my SLVR in to a river. This is starting to become tradition, there must be a half dozen old cell phones of mine which have been cast in to the briny deep. What a liberating experience.
iphones4evry1
Nov 13, 02:38 PM
This is becoming an epidemic of developers that are upset with Apple's App review process. I have no problem with Apple reviewing Apps, as it increases security for us users, BUT I think Apple needs to COMPLETELY overhaul their App process. There is no way in heck that it should take three months for a follow-up review of an App that they have already delayed. Three months is completely unacceptable in the rest of the world, and this looks VERY bad for Apple. Apple needs to COMPLETELY redo their completely inefficient app-review process, and get back up with the standards that the rest of the world operates on. If it took me three months to do anything, I would never have graduated college. They gave us due dates, and we did our work! It works the same way at my job. People aren't given three months to get things done. Apple gets an "F" on this one! "A day late, a penny short."
Gurutech
Sep 14, 04:19 PM
I definitely see Aperture update.
Merom MBP.. hm.... it's not worthy of holding a special event for that ... unless it gets NEW design.
I don't know.. we may see totally new program from Apple.
perhaps Apple's photoshop killer?
no idea.. :o
Merom MBP.. hm.... it's not worthy of holding a special event for that ... unless it gets NEW design.
I don't know.. we may see totally new program from Apple.
perhaps Apple's photoshop killer?
no idea.. :o
dwman
Apr 4, 11:54 AM
The security guard just saved CA taxpayers a nice chunk of change.
koen
Sep 13, 09:25 PM
Type the following in the Terminal:
cd /Applications/iTunes.app/Contents/MacOS
strings * | grep -i phone
cd /Applications/iTunes.app/Contents/MacOS
strings * | grep -i phone
Mac Fly (film)
Oct 12, 03:02 PM
http://www.exit42design.com/stuffDirectory/redNano.jpg
I've loved anodized aluminum ever since I was a kid. I always really loved the vibrance anodization gave to colors, don't know really why. In a way it's just something that always kinda made perfect sense to me.
I've loved anodized aluminum ever since I was a kid. I always really loved the vibrance anodization gave to colors, don't know really why. In a way it's just something that always kinda made perfect sense to me.
baxterbrittle
Aug 31, 11:39 AM
I don't care what it is, just give us something new to talk about. Mac Pro really nice machine but we saw it coming months in advance. Maybe not he exact spec but yeah we all knew it was coming. Same with Merom, Conroe etc... Give us something new, really new. All we have had for what seems like an age is Intel switch this Intel switch that. I don't care what processor they use as long as they are faster than they were before and it's still a Mac. I want nay, need a new product - something so I know that Apple are still innovating. Switching to Intel, no innovation there just good sense.
katewes
May 3, 04:03 PM
No matte antiglare screens on the new iMacs. If you need matte screens, there's something you can do - add your voice to 1,300+ petitions at http://macmatte.wordpress.com Unlike personal emails to Apple - which Apple just ignore, asserting everyone loves glossy screens - make it count by adding to the online petition where your voice will remain visible on the net until Apple listens. Remember, adding your comment to transient news articles on the net is fine, but those articles go out of date in a few weeks, and also there is no long-term accumulation and consolidation of numbers, like there is at a petition site.