spicyapple
Sep 12, 11:05 AM
I was going to buy the quad-core Mac Pro 3.0 GHz when it hit the mid-price point, but I think I'll wait out for the dual quad-core (8 core) Mac Pro, instead. :) Hopefully by then, FB-DIMM will be cheap enough to buy 8 GB worth of RAM without breaking the bank.
Avicdar
Aug 5, 06:28 PM
I'll have to wait and hope that there will be a Quicktime Stream of the keynote. It'll be on very late here in the UK so I have taken the next morning off from work to watch it Tuesday morning.
That's pretty sad of me.:o
I'm also not going to see what's released before I watch the keynote (I don't like to watch the making of a film before I see the film and this is similar to that). I just hope that the Quicktime Apple Channel has a link to it otherwise I'll have to visit one of t news/rumor sites to find the link.:(
Suggest you at least find the events page where the keynote is likely to be, and link to it now. If you just go to apple.com and start your hunt there, you are likely to be hit in the face with a brand new product. Surprise spoiled. :)
That's pretty sad of me.:o
I'm also not going to see what's released before I watch the keynote (I don't like to watch the making of a film before I see the film and this is similar to that). I just hope that the Quicktime Apple Channel has a link to it otherwise I'll have to visit one of t news/rumor sites to find the link.:(
Suggest you at least find the events page where the keynote is likely to be, and link to it now. If you just go to apple.com and start your hunt there, you are likely to be hit in the face with a brand new product. Surprise spoiled. :)
Donz0r
Aug 11, 01:06 PM
What OS will the iPhone be running? :confused:
If people want a Treo replacement, you are going to have top consider:
1. calendar - hopefully you can port over Palm to iCal
2. contacts - to Mail/Address book
3. will there be a keyboard - personally I send a lot of mail/texts so would want to keep the "thumb-board" ;)
I dont think that the iPhone will be an all-in-one smartphone replacement. The demographic using those kinds of phones (for the MOST part) are business people who mean business when it comes to their phones. They'll want to keep the windows/palm integration which works so well with their PCs.
That being said, it might be a good move to drag in some more switchers and showing the business world that apple means business, and can handle business.
All in all though, I really think it'll be a normal cell phone with great mp3 capabilities , possibly video chat, and some new feature that we can't think of.
If people want a Treo replacement, you are going to have top consider:
1. calendar - hopefully you can port over Palm to iCal
2. contacts - to Mail/Address book
3. will there be a keyboard - personally I send a lot of mail/texts so would want to keep the "thumb-board" ;)
I dont think that the iPhone will be an all-in-one smartphone replacement. The demographic using those kinds of phones (for the MOST part) are business people who mean business when it comes to their phones. They'll want to keep the windows/palm integration which works so well with their PCs.
That being said, it might be a good move to drag in some more switchers and showing the business world that apple means business, and can handle business.
All in all though, I really think it'll be a normal cell phone with great mp3 capabilities , possibly video chat, and some new feature that we can't think of.
LagunaSol
Apr 6, 03:08 PM
For those of my friends who are techy and into computers/technology, the XOOM is much more enjoyable.
Riiight. Because when you're "techie" and "into computers," you want a native app catalog of 30?
How many of your "friends" actually have a XOOM?
This is why having competition is good.
Can we just assume "competition is good" so people don't have to repeat it on every single thread?
If Jobs had his way we'd all be stuck with iPads whether we wanted them or not.
And if Motorola had its way, we'd all be stuck with XOOMS whether we wanted them or not, and if Samsung had its way, we'd all be stuck with Galaxy Tabs whether we wanted them or not, and if Microsoft had its way, we'd all be stuck with whatever crappy Win7 tablet is out there whether we wanted them or not. Welcome to...business!
Your attempt to show Jobs in a bad light in this regard is absurd.
Riiight. Because when you're "techie" and "into computers," you want a native app catalog of 30?
How many of your "friends" actually have a XOOM?
This is why having competition is good.
Can we just assume "competition is good" so people don't have to repeat it on every single thread?
If Jobs had his way we'd all be stuck with iPads whether we wanted them or not.
And if Motorola had its way, we'd all be stuck with XOOMS whether we wanted them or not, and if Samsung had its way, we'd all be stuck with Galaxy Tabs whether we wanted them or not, and if Microsoft had its way, we'd all be stuck with whatever crappy Win7 tablet is out there whether we wanted them or not. Welcome to...business!
Your attempt to show Jobs in a bad light in this regard is absurd.
heels98
Sep 19, 07:08 AM
Sure, some people will always have a need for the fastest computer in the world. Some will find themselves stressing over the slightest increase in processor performance, screen resolution, graphics memory, whatever. No one here doubts that. But most of those people spend much more time working than reading and posting on internet message boards. Professionals use the tools that for them get the job done. I feel that the main point of using the Mac is lost on most PC users, and especially on those that cry out for the absolute fastest turbo-charged, slick, top benchmark machines. Maybe our processors are "outdated," but Mac OS X is not, nor is the work that I see coming from Mac professionals inferior to those with faster computers. The fact that OS X makes doing our jobs more elegant and faster, is far more important than whose processor is the fastest, or as Freud would put, whose >>>> is bigger.:o
Becordial
Apr 27, 08:25 AM
I think the patch to iOS is a good response.
Making it clear the log file especially when you switch off location services is a good response, and that it will shorten the overall storage of it.
I hope it still does fast triangulation as necessary - there is a benefit to that - but just that the record keeping part basically is a non issue any more, because the cache is regularly flushed.
Making it clear the log file especially when you switch off location services is a good response, and that it will shorten the overall storage of it.
I hope it still does fast triangulation as necessary - there is a benefit to that - but just that the record keeping part basically is a non issue any more, because the cache is regularly flushed.
Popeye206
Mar 31, 04:16 PM
And the Apple haters do yet another 180...
1. Macs
1995 to 2007: Don't use a Mac. Noone uses Macs.
2007 to Present: Don't use a Mac. Everyone uses a Mac.
2. Apps
1995 to 2/22/2011: Don't use Apple. There is no software and they can't do anything.
2/22 to Present: Apps? Who needs Apps as long as you have a robust UI?
3. Open
2007 to Today: Apple is a walled garden that only stupid lemmings use.
Today going forward: Controlling the OS is necessary and good for the consumer.
+1! Love this analogy!
You could also add to it:
1984-1991: GUI? Who needs a GUI? Real computers use command lines!
1999 - Vista: Thank goodness that Microsoft invented the GUI interface.
:D
1. Macs
1995 to 2007: Don't use a Mac. Noone uses Macs.
2007 to Present: Don't use a Mac. Everyone uses a Mac.
2. Apps
1995 to 2/22/2011: Don't use Apple. There is no software and they can't do anything.
2/22 to Present: Apps? Who needs Apps as long as you have a robust UI?
3. Open
2007 to Today: Apple is a walled garden that only stupid lemmings use.
Today going forward: Controlling the OS is necessary and good for the consumer.
+1! Love this analogy!
You could also add to it:
1984-1991: GUI? Who needs a GUI? Real computers use command lines!
1999 - Vista: Thank goodness that Microsoft invented the GUI interface.
:D
xxavier
Aug 5, 09:31 PM
With the iSight and IR sensor rumored to be integrated into the new line of Cinema Displays, i guess apple's gonna adopt HDMI as the IO interface, making Apple one of the first corps to do so. Plus with a HDMI enabled Mac Pro and Leopard fully support it. Why? HDMI is just like ADC, plus its an industry standard port. U need only one cable to have all the communications (FW+USB+Sound+...) going, without having to clutter yr desktop with multiple cables. I see it coming!
dempson
Mar 26, 03:23 PM
NB: For those English native speakers... which is the best subject when addressing a company, for instance, Apple/Microsoft...? I used "it" here, but sometimes I also use "they"... and I don't know which one is correct!
Both are acceptable. In the UK, Australia and New Zealand, the convention seems to be to refer to a company in the plural, i.e. "they". In the US, the convention seems to be to refer to a company in the singular, i.e. "it". To me (in New Zealand), "they" seems more natural because most companies involve multiple people.
Both are acceptable. In the UK, Australia and New Zealand, the convention seems to be to refer to a company in the plural, i.e. "they". In the US, the convention seems to be to refer to a company in the singular, i.e. "it". To me (in New Zealand), "they" seems more natural because most companies involve multiple people.
MattSepeta
Mar 23, 02:09 PM
If you are supporting non-intervention, than I disagree. I support the notion that the UN (using member-nations' pooled military or civilian assets) should be able to intervene in a nation's affairs if it is thought necessary to either 1) protect other nations from harm or 2) protect a nation's own people from its government, or in the case of a civil war, one or more factions.
With that being said, the UN has many flaws and I am not satisfied with the way things are done. But I do feel that intervention is sometimes necessary, if imperfect.
That is totally reasonable and understandable, although I do disagree. I can't with good heart support sending my neighbors son/daughter overseas to fight for another people.
I just find it pretty disgusting when we have the VP going on the record talking out his arse about "Unless we are attacked or unless there is proof we are about to be attacked", then a couple years later nary a peep when we start bombing a foreign country that is not even close to a threat to us. Did Biden qualify it with a " we should be able to intervene in a nation's affairs if it is thought necessary to either 1) protect other nations from harm or 2) protect a nation's own people from its government, or in the case of a civil war, one or more factions." NOPE!
Now THAT is a classic "When my guy does it it is ok."
With that being said, the UN has many flaws and I am not satisfied with the way things are done. But I do feel that intervention is sometimes necessary, if imperfect.
That is totally reasonable and understandable, although I do disagree. I can't with good heart support sending my neighbors son/daughter overseas to fight for another people.
I just find it pretty disgusting when we have the VP going on the record talking out his arse about "Unless we are attacked or unless there is proof we are about to be attacked", then a couple years later nary a peep when we start bombing a foreign country that is not even close to a threat to us. Did Biden qualify it with a " we should be able to intervene in a nation's affairs if it is thought necessary to either 1) protect other nations from harm or 2) protect a nation's own people from its government, or in the case of a civil war, one or more factions." NOPE!
Now THAT is a classic "When my guy does it it is ok."
bushido
Apr 11, 04:27 PM
i got the iPhone 4 but also got a new Android because i'm sick of the same old school UI after 3 iPhones and i LOVE my android experience, sure i still use my iPhone 4 for some apps i can't get on the android, but apps r really the only thing that still saves the iPhone. of course its stupid to argue about that on a "mac"rumors site, so i'll just ***** up ^^
padr�
Sep 19, 01:12 PM
then i will have to work just a little bit harder i'm afraid ;)
i'll start with the 1 gig ram, maybe 2, and later i will be upgrading,it can't stay expansive forever.
thx again for your reply
i'll start with the 1 gig ram, maybe 2, and later i will be upgrading,it can't stay expansive forever.
thx again for your reply
ryanx27
Aug 27, 11:05 AM
I happen to have a Yonah Macbook, and im a little concerned.
I wonder, if merom does make it into the Macbooks did i make a mistake by buying my computer before i had to (as in next friday is the cutoff)
I wonder if Merom is really that good. *it sucks that macbooks dont have PGA slots*
well im hoping to sell this one next year, and thatll get me most of the way to my santa rosa beast, cuz i KNOW santa rosa is that good.
This is the classic existential dilemma of the Mac user :D
I wonder, if merom does make it into the Macbooks did i make a mistake by buying my computer before i had to (as in next friday is the cutoff)
I wonder if Merom is really that good. *it sucks that macbooks dont have PGA slots*
well im hoping to sell this one next year, and thatll get me most of the way to my santa rosa beast, cuz i KNOW santa rosa is that good.
This is the classic existential dilemma of the Mac user :D
shawnce
Aug 7, 11:32 PM
So it's fair to say that developers have received their copy of Leopard? Folks that attend WWDC get the Mac OS X Leopord preview and ADC members with seed keys will likely get it within a couple weeks to a month.
asiayeah
Aug 26, 11:44 AM
Im sorry, but when you recall 1.8million batteries, and expect them not to get over laoded with call, your crazy. Dell is making some people wait nearly 70 days to get their replacement. Its a LOT of batteries. Affecting a LOT of users. These things happen.
Because Apple customers care about Apple and they want the best and reasonable services from it. Unfortunately, this is not the current case.
I am sure most people agree that Apple's current way of handling the battery replacements leaves lots of rooms for improvements, particularly in non-US areas.
We also shouldn't feel good just because Dell also does not handle it too well. After all, Dell has more batteries to replace and has a shorter period of time for preparations. Supposingly, Dell provides bargain PCs, while Apple tends to charge a premium for their products. Can't Apple customers deserve better services? Shouldn't Apple be better? Should we all lower our expectations from Apple and ask for a cheaper price instead?
Because Apple customers care about Apple and they want the best and reasonable services from it. Unfortunately, this is not the current case.
I am sure most people agree that Apple's current way of handling the battery replacements leaves lots of rooms for improvements, particularly in non-US areas.
We also shouldn't feel good just because Dell also does not handle it too well. After all, Dell has more batteries to replace and has a shorter period of time for preparations. Supposingly, Dell provides bargain PCs, while Apple tends to charge a premium for their products. Can't Apple customers deserve better services? Shouldn't Apple be better? Should we all lower our expectations from Apple and ask for a cheaper price instead?
shamino
Jul 21, 10:07 AM
With all these new technologies with 4, 8 and eventually 24-core capacities (some time in the not too distant future) all running at 64-bit, we musn't forget that software also has tobe developed for these machienes in order to get the most out of the hardware. At the moment we aren't even maximising core-duo, let alone a quad core and all the rest!!!!
It really depends on your application.
On the desktop, if you're a typical user that's just interested in web surfing, playing music files, organizing your photo collection, etc., more than two cores will probably not be too useful. For these kinds of users, even two cores may be overkill, but two are useful for keeping a responsive UI when an application starts hogging all the CPU time.
If you start using higher-power applications (like video work - iMovie/iDVD, for instance) then more cores will speed up that kind of work (assuming the app is properly multithreaded, of course.) 4-core systems will definitely benefit this kind of user.
With current applications, however, I don't think more than 4 cores will be useful. The kind of work that will make 8 cores useful is the kinds that requires expensive professional software - which most people don't use.
If you get away from the desktop and look to the server market, however, the picture changes. A web server may only be running one copy of Apache, but it may create a thread for every simultaneous connection. If you have 8 cores, then you can handle 8 times as many connections as a 1-core system can (assuming sufficient memory and I/O bandwidth, of course.) Ditto for database, transaction, and all kinds of other servers. More cores means more simultaneous connections without performance degradation.
Cluster computing has similar benefits. With 8 cores in each processor, it is almost as good as having 8 times as many computers in the cluster, and a lot less expensive. This concept will scale up as the number of cores increases, assuming motherbaords can be designed with enough memory and FSB bandwidth to keep them all busy.
I think we might see a single quad-core chip in consumer systems, like the iMac. I think it is likely that we'll see them in Pro systems, like the Mac Pro (including a high-end model with two quad-core chips.)
I think processors with more than 4 cores will never be seen outside of servers - Xserves and maybe some configurations of Mac Pro. Mostly because that's where there is a need for this kind of power.
It really depends on your application.
On the desktop, if you're a typical user that's just interested in web surfing, playing music files, organizing your photo collection, etc., more than two cores will probably not be too useful. For these kinds of users, even two cores may be overkill, but two are useful for keeping a responsive UI when an application starts hogging all the CPU time.
If you start using higher-power applications (like video work - iMovie/iDVD, for instance) then more cores will speed up that kind of work (assuming the app is properly multithreaded, of course.) 4-core systems will definitely benefit this kind of user.
With current applications, however, I don't think more than 4 cores will be useful. The kind of work that will make 8 cores useful is the kinds that requires expensive professional software - which most people don't use.
If you get away from the desktop and look to the server market, however, the picture changes. A web server may only be running one copy of Apache, but it may create a thread for every simultaneous connection. If you have 8 cores, then you can handle 8 times as many connections as a 1-core system can (assuming sufficient memory and I/O bandwidth, of course.) Ditto for database, transaction, and all kinds of other servers. More cores means more simultaneous connections without performance degradation.
Cluster computing has similar benefits. With 8 cores in each processor, it is almost as good as having 8 times as many computers in the cluster, and a lot less expensive. This concept will scale up as the number of cores increases, assuming motherbaords can be designed with enough memory and FSB bandwidth to keep them all busy.
I think we might see a single quad-core chip in consumer systems, like the iMac. I think it is likely that we'll see them in Pro systems, like the Mac Pro (including a high-end model with two quad-core chips.)
I think processors with more than 4 cores will never be seen outside of servers - Xserves and maybe some configurations of Mac Pro. Mostly because that's where there is a need for this kind of power.
Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 05:10 PM
But you're really forgetting 1 thing. International Trade Mark/patent law is a pain in the @$$!!! I wouldn't blame Apple for 1 min to keep it in the US for at least a test run. That way they should be able to keep the patent breaker-reverse engineers off their back for a least a little while (i.e. why copy something if you can't even use it anywhere other than where it's patent protected).
If the rest of the world would get a handle on international trademarking and patent protection I don't think we'd have this issue of different standards of EU vs USA...
:confused: patent intrusion in europe??? Are you serious? Do you have any examples to verify your claims where a european company violated US patent law and this wasn't enforced by the european judicial system?
If the rest of the world would get a handle on international trademarking and patent protection I don't think we'd have this issue of different standards of EU vs USA...
:confused: patent intrusion in europe??? Are you serious? Do you have any examples to verify your claims where a european company violated US patent law and this wasn't enforced by the european judicial system?
Matthew Yohe
Apr 7, 10:41 PM
I don't know what to believe.
Not Best Buy.
Not Best Buy.
baddj
Mar 26, 06:45 AM
I have played with the dev preview (a friend had it on his macbook) and all i can say there better be more coming as right now nothing worth while for me to upgrade.
Been lion the king of cats.
Been lion the king of cats.
raymondso
Sep 19, 10:14 AM
Could be that they are expecting a flood of returns after they introduce the new MB and MBP. And they are waiting so they can send out fresh referbs. Just a though.
reasonable:p
and i hope u are right! :D
reasonable:p
and i hope u are right! :D
epitaphic
Aug 18, 09:06 PM
Do you think a Conroe iMac will beat a Mac Pro due to lower memory latency alone? Do you have real experience or data regarding how horrendous a problem this is? Extra dual-core processor aside, the Mac Pro has a higher speed FSB, higher memory bus bandwidth, higher RAM capacity, and ability to set up internal RAID amongst other advantages over a Conroe iMac.
Obviously, inherently the iMac design is inferior to the Mac Pro/Powermac. But I think there's a bigger reason why Apple chose to go all quad with the Mac Pro: Apple chose all quad because a duo option would have had the same performance in professional apps (again, excluding handbrake and toast which are the only two examples touted about). A single processor Woodcrest or Conroe option will have the same obtainable CPU power for 90-95% of the professional market for another 6-12 months at the very least.
Here's some data regarding the Mac Pro's FSB:
the Mac Pro (...) actually takes longer to access main memory than the Core Duo processor in the MacBook Pro. This is much worse than it sounds once you take into account the fact that the MacBook Pro features a 667MHz FSB compared to the 1333MHz FSB (per chip) used in the Mac Pro.
What can we take from this? Because of the use of FB-DIMMs, the Mac Pro's effective FSB is that of ~640MHz DDR2 system.
And how does it fare in memory latency?
It's not Apple's fault, but FB-DIMMs absolutely kill memory latency; even running in quad channel mode, the FB-DIMM equipped Mac Pro takes 45% more time to access memory than our DDR2 equipped test bed at the same memory frequency.
As for bandwidth, although the Mac Pro has a load of theoretical bandwidth, the efficiency is an abysmal 20%. In real use a DDR2 system has 72% more usable bandwidth. (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=11))
I don't know bout you, but if I were a heavy user of memory intensive apps such as Photoshop, I'd be worried. Worried in the sense that a Conroe would be noticeably faster.
Memory issues aside, Woodcrests are faster than Conroes, 2.4% on average (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=6))
Obviously, inherently the iMac design is inferior to the Mac Pro/Powermac. But I think there's a bigger reason why Apple chose to go all quad with the Mac Pro: Apple chose all quad because a duo option would have had the same performance in professional apps (again, excluding handbrake and toast which are the only two examples touted about). A single processor Woodcrest or Conroe option will have the same obtainable CPU power for 90-95% of the professional market for another 6-12 months at the very least.
Here's some data regarding the Mac Pro's FSB:
the Mac Pro (...) actually takes longer to access main memory than the Core Duo processor in the MacBook Pro. This is much worse than it sounds once you take into account the fact that the MacBook Pro features a 667MHz FSB compared to the 1333MHz FSB (per chip) used in the Mac Pro.
What can we take from this? Because of the use of FB-DIMMs, the Mac Pro's effective FSB is that of ~640MHz DDR2 system.
And how does it fare in memory latency?
It's not Apple's fault, but FB-DIMMs absolutely kill memory latency; even running in quad channel mode, the FB-DIMM equipped Mac Pro takes 45% more time to access memory than our DDR2 equipped test bed at the same memory frequency.
As for bandwidth, although the Mac Pro has a load of theoretical bandwidth, the efficiency is an abysmal 20%. In real use a DDR2 system has 72% more usable bandwidth. (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=11))
I don't know bout you, but if I were a heavy user of memory intensive apps such as Photoshop, I'd be worried. Worried in the sense that a Conroe would be noticeably faster.
Memory issues aside, Woodcrests are faster than Conroes, 2.4% on average (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=6))
twoodcc
Aug 9, 08:38 PM
In terms of driving/racing sim, any SimBin racer wipes the floor with the GT series.
i have never heard of SimBin, but looking at the website, it doesn't look bad. do any of their games work in Mac OS X?
given that its been out for 10 years, i think it would have sold a fair few no matter what :rolleyes: i preferred GT3 A-Spec over anything else.
do we have an official date yet? or will that be pushed back too :D
yes it has been out for awhile, but they still haven't released the 5th game yet (not including demos). so either way, there's only 4 versions of the game out. at over 57 million copies sold, i'd say they sold a fair few...
and yeah they have been known to push back dates, i sure hope that they don't
If sales are the judge of a games greatness, then Mario Kart on the Wii is the greatest racing game of all time. No doubt about it. The number of copies sold backs that up. Sorry GT.
mario kart is a different type of racing game, geared towards a different audience. i like mario kart as well.
i'm not saying sales are the only factor, but when you get to the level of Gran Turismo, that's when vendors start making real cars just for the game...
i have never heard of SimBin, but looking at the website, it doesn't look bad. do any of their games work in Mac OS X?
given that its been out for 10 years, i think it would have sold a fair few no matter what :rolleyes: i preferred GT3 A-Spec over anything else.
do we have an official date yet? or will that be pushed back too :D
yes it has been out for awhile, but they still haven't released the 5th game yet (not including demos). so either way, there's only 4 versions of the game out. at over 57 million copies sold, i'd say they sold a fair few...
and yeah they have been known to push back dates, i sure hope that they don't
If sales are the judge of a games greatness, then Mario Kart on the Wii is the greatest racing game of all time. No doubt about it. The number of copies sold backs that up. Sorry GT.
mario kart is a different type of racing game, geared towards a different audience. i like mario kart as well.
i'm not saying sales are the only factor, but when you get to the level of Gran Turismo, that's when vendors start making real cars just for the game...
Iconoclysm
Apr 20, 06:18 PM
Actually, anyone above the age of six knew about Apple Records.
We all lived and breathed vinyl back then :)
You're right, but I don't even know why I'm arguing this point - using a logo from a record label for a computer company is not nearly the same thing as using another computer company's designs to make products that compete with it.
We all lived and breathed vinyl back then :)
You're right, but I don't even know why I'm arguing this point - using a logo from a record label for a computer company is not nearly the same thing as using another computer company's designs to make products that compete with it.
SevenInchScrew
Dec 10, 01:08 PM
Charming. I really like how if someone doesn't just exude overflowing praise for this game then they are obviously a hater, no middle ground. I guess I shouldn't expect anything less from MR. :rolleyes:
So, whatever, I'll just stop talking about the game. From now on, I'm only going to post pics....
Click to HUGE-size
http://imgur.com/PN8Z5.jpg
http://imgur.com/tvo6Y.jpg
http://imgur.com/PJwmY.jpg
http://imgur.com/lIEiJ.jpg
http://imgur.com/xNjv6.jpg
http://imgur.com/V3aXd.jpg
http://imgur.com/2A3Hf.jpg
So, whatever, I'll just stop talking about the game. From now on, I'm only going to post pics....
Click to HUGE-size
http://imgur.com/PN8Z5.jpg
http://imgur.com/tvo6Y.jpg
http://imgur.com/PJwmY.jpg
http://imgur.com/lIEiJ.jpg
http://imgur.com/xNjv6.jpg
http://imgur.com/V3aXd.jpg
http://imgur.com/2A3Hf.jpg